Deep Kumar Upadhyay is Nepal’s ambassador to India. In his term in office, Upadhyay, witnessed both the high (Modi’s visit to Nepal) and low (Indian blockade) in Indo-Nepal relations. Onlinekhabar’s Chiranjibi Paudel talked to Upadhyay at his office in New Delhi about Prime Minister KP Oli’s visit and Nepal-India relations in general. Translated excerpts:
The Indian government has said it gives the utmost importance to Nepal’s Prime Minister’s visit. What is the reason behind this?
We should not be skeptical about everything. India still has goodwill for Nepal. It is under pressure to improve relations with Nepal. This (the importance) is also the President’s (Mukherjee’s) wish. The President is sad that our relations have deteriorated. I believe that India wants to begin afresh.
Nepal was the only neighbouring country with which India did not have any problems. Recent turn of events have made the Indian people feel for Nepal, and the Indian government has also taken note of this.
So, is the bilateral relation back to normal?
I would say it has not normalised yet, but it is in the process of becoming normal again. Until the common people in Nepal do not get gas and petrol, we would not be able to say that things have normalised. Getting petrol is a fundamental right. When someone does not get gas even when he has the money to pay for it, the pain is unimaginable. So, any attempt at improving Indo-Nepal relations should begin from there.
It has been said that the blockade is now over, but people in Nepal still aren’t getting petrol. What is your take on this?
I believe there is no problem on the Indian side. I have told Nepal Oil Corporation that we should buy fuel more than what we buy in normal times. The people should get fuel whenever they need it. That will end the grey market.
Although the blockade is over, there are many issues that remain unresolved. Do you see the blockade being enforced again over those issues?
There are not many issues that remain unresolved. The constitution has already been amended. The political parties are working to settle rest of the issues. Hi-level talks will create an atmosphere of confidence. That is why I believe that there will not be another blockade. But we should not forget the lessons the blockade has taught us.
What are the things on PM Oli’s agenda?
I don’t think there will be any discussion on political issues. During this visit, the discussions will revolve around making use of India’s line of credit to Nepal. India had announced that it would provide $1 billion for post-quake reconstruction in Nepal, but the details remained to be sorted out. It will be done during the visit.
Projects that will utilise India’s pledged assistance to Nepal, which has now accrued to $3 billion, also need to be discussed. Some projects, like those in the railway sector, will also be discussed.
What do you feel is India’s key interest in Nepal at the moment?
That is exactly what is never said in diplomacy. It is up to us to dig out what India wants, and take steps to manage it.
The constitution was passed; we passed through a major hurdle. Now we should focus on development. We should have a common voice in matters of our foreign policy. We should quit our old habits.
As Nepal’s ambassador to New Delhi, what kind of pressure did you feel during the blockade?
There was no question of not feeling the heat. During the first few days they asked to go tell the government that if the Indian government’s concerns were addressed, the blockade will immediately be lifted. I listened to them, but did not do what they wanted me to do.
The tides have turned. They are the one more eager to mend fences now.
There are some who believe that this eagerness came as a result of improvement in Nepal-China ties. What do you think?
We cannot change our neighbour. What will we do by tilting toward China? It is not possible to import things from China. It snows for four months, and for the other four, the rain does the damage. On top of that, the earthquake hit the same region.
We should keep both India and China at equal arms’ length. Tilting towards one when ties with the other sour is not beneficial. We are fortunate that both India and China want stability in Nepal.
There are some Indian scholars who believe that Nepal has turned towards China.
Those people do not understand what is going on. I tell them Nepal did that because of what India did to Nepal. But in reality we do not have that luxury. The geography does not allow us to turn north. Things might change if China builds tunnel roads or oil pipelines in the next 10-20 years, and Nepal might become a transit point for China-India trade. But until then, we have no option.
But, when will India become positive towards Nepal?
What happened in the past few months more of our doing than India’s. The agreement between NOC and IOC does not have a provision for the aggrieved party to claim damages if supply is obstructed unilaterally. If the deal were between private companies, this clause would have definitely been there in the agreement.
Even now, half of the electricity being consumed in Nepal comes from India. If India wanted it could stop transmission citing technical reasons.
Finance Minsiter Bishnu Poudel, during a meeting with his counterpart in New Delhi two weeks ago, is said to have asked the Indian government to provide grant assistance for a 50 MW project and loan for a 500 MW one. Will this issue be discussed during the visit?
Yes, I was there during the meeting. He (Poudel) told the Finance Minister during the course of the conversation. But it’s limited to that conversation only. We don’t have any concrete plans, neither do we have any DPR to show. This issue will not figure during the Prime Minister’s visit. But it will focus on creating a better investment climate for Indian companies.
